Looking for equipment to improve rural 4G signal reception and speed

I see cell locking and band masking as two very different things.

According to the MT help : https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/LTE , cell locking behaves like this:

1. Cell lock information will not be saved after a reboot or modem reset. 2. AT+QNWLOCK command can lock the cell and frequency. Therefore, the module can be given priority to register to the locked cell, however, according to the 3gpp protocol, the module will be redirected or handover to a cell with better signal instructions, even if it is not within the lock of the command. This phenomenon is normal.

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Band masking is not mentioned in MT help. But in other brands it is defined as masking the capability of using a certain band, when selecting a cell and when reporting information to the tower. They explain when band locking / band masking could be used: https://help.ubifi.net/bandlocking-the-modem/
Like the SXT LTE kit does not support band B28 (700MHz) , it can as well report the supported bands e.g. without adding the classical band B20 (800MHz).
The tower will then not ask the end-user device to switch to a cell in a band it cannot support, because it can never get there. And the device did not give signal values for that cell anyway.

https://www.quora.com/Why-or-in-what-situations-should-I-bother-to-try-and-see-if-locking-my-modem-to-a-cellular-band-will-improve-its-bandwidth-Shouldnt-it-be-smart-enough-to-pick-the-best-band

Be carefull with the 4x4 mimo and the CA channel aggregation capability definitions (like in SXT LTE6, LTE12, LTE18) mimo and CA are not exactly the same. https://www.outdoorrouter.com/4g-router-category/
I always understood that 4x4 needs 4 antennae on both sides sender/receiver. (City towers versus rural towers do differ mostly.) As you can see there are more than 3 MT devices to select from. For some the antenna gain is in the “brochure”, like https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/RBSXTR_R11e-LTE_230238.pdf

Thanks for clarifying.

What @mkx explained initially was:

Setting “cell lock” on modem actually prevents modem from reporting measurements for other cells so network won’t switch modem to another cell. But this also impacts CA which is most often not desired.

The first sentence sounds exactly like your explanation of band masking/locking. It is still called cell lock though.

The second sentence seems to contradict the documentation which shows an exact example of how to set primary-band and ca-band. (I come back to this below)

You say:

Band masking is not mentioned in MT help.

but band lock (which you say is the same) is - in the same example mentioned above.

Please, I don’t mean to contradict anyone, as I am learning here. I am just trying to clarify things for myself. I don’t understand why you say:

I see cell locking and band masking as two very different things.

To my mind (please correct me if I am wrong), band lock (=band masking) is a sub-function of cell lock which locks communication not only to a particular cell but also to a specific frequency/band. If I am reading correctly MT help, both things are supported and work on the equipment mentioned there (including ATL).

After some additional reading, I understand that MIMO and CA are not identical. Someone detailed it in this article (which gave me a headache), so I simply stick to the shortest explanation I found:

MIMO (Multiple Input Multiple Output) combines signals and data streams from multiple antennas to improve signal quality and data rates, whereas Carrier Aggregation (CA) combines multiple frequency carriers (channels) to enhance the bandwidth and data rates. 4G and 5G networks use both techniques.

Even so, my question about locking still seems valid in the sense: What would be the proper way to combine all these advanced functions in order to “squeeze” the best possible connection (incl. stability and speed) and not end up in the “rejected by cell” situation instead?

I suppose I am still overthinking this but I hope to get as much clarity as possible before placing an order rather than post factum.

My God, this is all so complex.

To my mind (please correct me if I am wrong), band lock (=band masking) is a sub-function of cell lock

Not for my understanding. For me they are absolutly not the same, the mechanisms are totally different.
I can’t help there is no definition for this: where one speaks about band masking, the other brand speaks about band locking.

Look at the mechanisms:

  • cell locking the user device (UE) connects to a known specific cell. That is not the way LTE RRM (Radio resource management) is supposed to work. The towers will optimize the radio resource by telling end-user devices to move to the “best” cell or tower. “Cell locking” here means that the UE will at start connect to a specific cell, and stay there until told to move to another
    -How does RRM know what are the possible cells for a specific UE? Because the UE will be asked, and has to give the measurements for the cells it sees (can receive).

  • band masking the user device ignores, does not use does not measure, does not allow, a certain band. Just the same as if it is incapable of using that band. The list of usable bands for a UE is limited anyway (compare SXT LTE with LHG and ATL). When asked about cell signal strengths seen by the UE device, the cells of that masked band will not be given to the tower. Because the UE cannot see or measure that band. The towers then will direct the UE to connect to the “best” cell, based on the UE information (list of possible cells and signal strength/quality). The towers will not send the UE to a cell which the UE is incapable of using. The towers do not know if this band list is a UE characteristic, or a “faked” UE characteristic.

-band locking : special case of band masking: the UE disables/masks all bands except of just one (not recommended for good results, the whole idea is to be as flexible as possible, but avoiding some “known to be less interesting bands” (weak, error prone, congested at certain times, etc)) Band masking and locking does not use the cell locking ability of a UE, it limits the number of usable bands of a UE device.

Exemple:
Klembord-2.jpg
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I do not want to use LTE band 20, and not the 3G bands and not the GSM bands. (unless I fully lost connection, and then I would automatically alter the masks)
Band 20 is a real nightmare for performance in the evening, fully congested, high RTL values (> 80ms) and less than 1MBps data download.
Band 28 is in that area (good and strong), seen on smartphones, but this SXT LTE hardware cannot use LTE band 28.
Currently the towers selected a cell in band 7 as the “best” cell. (3km further away than the tower with band 20)

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Klembord-3.jpg
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With that information here one should be able to find that physical tower and cell.

It is not cell locked, this SXT swaps cells as asked by the towers.
Performance is excellent, only band B20 congestion is an avoided problem.
I use scripts to count the bytes for “monthly fair use limits” and swapping SIM cards A/B when it is the best time. (Reset day is different for the SIM cards, provider is different, etc)
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Klembord-4.jpg
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Monitored with DUDE, SXT LTE used for out-of-band management only today … etc etc … getting off topic again ? :slight_smile:
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Klembord-5.jpg

The LTE docs show multiple frequencies are possible for the ATL. So, if desired, you should be able to tweak this. The “band lock” is actually expressed in a EARFCN (which is BOTH the LTE band + frequency) and that’s what used in the at-chat to override the modem’s selection (as shown the Mikrotik’s help).

The RouterOS LTE docs actually clarify “band lock” points:

AT+QNWLOCK command can lock the cell and frequency. Therefore, the module can be given priority to register to the locked cell, however, according to the 3gpp protocol, the module will be redirected or handover to a cell with better signal instructions, even if it is not within the lock of the command. This phenomenon is normal.

IMO…the basic idea behind getting the ATL is the device has a wider range of the “carrier aggregation” modes, at higher possible modulations. And the modem really should automatically select the best frequencies to use based on its negotiation with the tower – so hopefully there shouldn’t be a need for band locking/filtering.

We don’t know what your tower supports is the issue here. We know you have B3 and B8, but dunno what else and/or what CA modes are offered by the tower – since just because a modem support a CA mode, the tower also has to allow it too… But idea is the ATL offers higher odds that multiple bands can be combined. e.g. the ATL carrier aggregation modes are here: https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/EG18-EA_221021.xlsx

The R11-LTE6 in the SXT/LHG offers a more limited set of carrier aggregation – but again if you really and truly only have B3 and B8 from the roof, they do supports a combo of those:
1+1/5/8/20
2+2/5/12/17
3+3/5/7/8/20
7+7/8/12/20
12+12
38+38
39+39/41
40+40
8+8
41+41

Importantly, the ATL also support upload carrier aggregation while the SXT/LHG only support upload via the primary channel. But, again, this only help if your carrier/tower support that particular CA mode. Why it’s hard to say exactly “what’s best”.

A few days away and, man, what a discussion …

I didn’t notice anybody touching this:

My source of information is very likely the same gain chart … and yes, it does show negative gain in low frequency part (that’s why I call it shitty).
Indeed the gain is not -4dBi in the whole lower frequency band, but it’s negative never the less.

Before calling it “attenuation” it’s important to know why it’s called “gain” and what is reference: ideal omni-directional antenna would be the reference with spherical gain charts and gain value of 0dBi. Would be because there’s no such thing as ideal omni-directional antenna (it would have to be a magnetic monopole and this doesn’t exist). The closest approximation is a dipole antenna with ideal circular radiation pattern in horizontal plane but with a infinite dip in vertical direction (along the axis). And ideal dipole antenna has gain of slightly more than +2dBi. Real antennae then compare to dipole antenna… and negative gain is shitty (I know, I’m repeating myself).
The problem with dipole antenna is that it only works good for single frequency … which is fine for radio amateurs but not good for LTE phones and modems.

The simplest theory here is @utiker may not need 700Mhz, so low-band gain may not be as important… Today low band is needed some part of the year since the device is inside… My guess is a directional on roof changes may change the LTE bands used historically…

But since we have you have @mkx :wink:… Any thought on the idea of “mucking” with band selection?

you dont need low bands until… you need it

where i live the only way to get service on a phone is with low bands

Thanks again everyone.
It’s great to have you back @mkx!

Thank you for your comment regarding the low frequency gain of ATL. Looking again at the diagrams in its brochure I see -4dBi only for 0.55 GHz and it crawls slowly up to 0 db at ~0.76 GHz (which is still band 28, I guess), reaching a maximum of 3 dBi @0.93 GHz. So, in any case, it is shitty in the whole range and I really wonder what exactly MT’s product “info” page (and brochure) mean when they say “2 high-gain low band antennas (700 MHz – 1 GHz, LTE Band 28).” Where is the high gain on this band?

For the other models mentioned earlier I see:

  • LHG LTE 18: +5 dBi @ 800 MHz and +15 dBi @ 1800 MHz (reaching +18 dBi @ 2.7 GHz).
  • LHGG LTE 6 (and LHG R): same + additional quite impressive gain (up to 20 dBi) at higher frequencies, which it (and ATL too) doesn’t support modem-wise though (what a waste).

Why didn’t MT use these obviously more powerful antennae on the ATL, making it even more powerful? In those frequencies perhaps a 5G-modem could be used (even optionally). Questions, questions…

@Amm0

Whether I would need the band 28 is questionable. So far, based on my observations with the current router, I have never seen that band displayed in the web UI. In winter it connected mainly to Cell 1 and in spring it started preferring Cell 2 (unless I raise the router on top floor or roof where Cell 1 seems to rule all the time as during the measurements). I have no way to be certain of whether this is due to foliage and/or anything else seasonal but it looks highly likely that you are right about the 700 Mhz. Band 8 is still in use though and ATL’s diagrams suck in that range. Is the later an issue? I don’t know but I suppose my current router sucks even more, so I hope the ATL will be (at least) no worse for those frequencies.


Questions that still remain not quite clear:

  1. (Actual) Difference between “cell lock”, “band masking”, “band locking”?

@mkx, would you agree with what MT’s support answered (shared by me above) and what @bpwl explained? Or could you, being an experienced radio expert, please provide a factual explanation of all this, so there is no confusion?

  1. From #42:

What would be the proper way to combine all these advanced functions in order to “squeeze” the best possible connection (incl. stability and speed) and not end up in the “rejected by cell” situation instead?

  1. Is there anything better than ATL and what is it (if yes)? (question not limited to MT)

My opinion on #1: since I don’t have hands-on experience with MT LTE devices, I can’t say what exactly is meant by various phrases and names. So guesswork of others is probably way better than whatever I might “invent”.

Regarding low band cells: it may happen that your MNO will introduce B28 cells (700MHz) and the B8 cells might dissapear or they might perform slightly better (due to less devices using them). Which are two opposite outcomes for you given that ATL is almost unusable in B28).

If you’re referring to the band 3 cell by “cell 1”, then my opinion is that using ATL to make B3 cell way more attractive than the rest is no brainer.

So guesswork of others is probably way better than whatever I might “invent”.

The question is general, not MT-specific. There is obviously a contradiction between what you explained initially and what MT’s support (and my ISP) claim. To me, your explanation makes more sense. But what are MT’s support talking about? I am really concerned about that “rejected by cell” potential situation.

I don’t have hands-on experience with MT LTE devices

I still value your expertise though. Perhaps you can answer question 3 based on what you have experience with?

Re. 700 (or 800) MHz - aren’t these only for 3.5G speeds? I.e. even if one gets a decent signal amplification within those bands, that still won’t help improve speed beyond the 7 Mbps (that is the maximum download speed I get when connected to Cell 2, which, IIUC, is HSPA speed) and I already have that at any time. IOW, is there anything to improve (or expect) at all in those lower bands? I am just trying to understand in general.

Regarding cell locking: I already explained (perhaps not in this thread) how mobility in mobile networks works. In short: when device is connected to certain cell, cell sends a set of “neighbours” to measure. By “neighbours” I mean handover candidates, identified by certain properties (those depend on technology, on LTE that’s eARFCN (frequency) and PCI (numerical identifier)). Then device does the measurements, it can take a while because measurements on non-serving eARFCN can be only done during idle periods (and cell does schedule those if needed so device throughput can be reduced during that time). When measurements are done (can be as they’re made, it doesn’t have to be complete measurements), device reports them back to the serving cell.
This is when all those “cell lock”, “band lock” and “band affinity” come into the play. Device can simply omit some measurements from reports (or they might even not be done, depends on implementation of device RF chipset). So if device is set to “cell lock”, then it won’t report any of “neighbours” as being detected. In case of “band lock”, device will report “neighbours” from same eARFCN and with “band affinity” device will report only “neighbours” from the preferred bands. Device can try to prioritize certain neighbours by reporting them sooner or it can report their signal strength and quality (RSRP and RSRQ) better than they actually are (but this kind of innovative reporting can be detrimental later).
The “neighbour” reporting in LTE is only started when device measures serving cell below certain thresholds, these thresholds are set per cell by MNO. After device reports “neighbours”, network decides how to handle the situation. Most often it orders handover to a better cell. Which is it? Could be it’s not the cell with best signal, MNO might configure some affinity (to “move” devices to bands with higher capacity even if signal strength of those at device is slightly lower … strategy is entirely up to MNO and depends on network equipment functionality, some vendors offer more than others).

So: if device doesn’t report certain “neighbour”, then it won’t be ordered to handover to that neighbour.

Indeed some MNOs are a bit “innovative” when trying to distribute devices between different cells. If your MNO is one of those, then my condolences.

It’s worth to mention that there is different behaviour when device is idle (i.e. registered to netwoork, but no data transfer is going on) and when device is active (i.e. during data transfers). Different MNOs play slightly different games here, but most often they are not really pushing devices to cells with lower signal strength when devices are idle. When devices start to transfer data, they can be hand-over to higher-capacity cell pretty quickly.

Another thing is carrier aggregation. Again candidates for component carriers have to be measured by device before resources are scheduled for certain device on those carriers. When device has some of locks configured, it may or may not allow for CA on omitted bands/cells.


Re. question #3: it’s been a while since I quit the telco job and I don’t need mobile networks for broadband access on any of “my” locations. So I really don’t have any usable opinion here. My ex employer uses some Cisco routers with LTE modems for business customers (we are one, we use such setup on one of our remote locations to provide backup for primary link which is optical line), but that doesn’t mean anything, it’s a Cisco shop for business customers. And I’ve no idea what kind of LTE modem is built in (I guess I could ask though). And they use the ugly Iskra antennae, they are really good and perform up to promises from the product catalogue. My guess is that the setup comes a bit pricier than ATL though.


Re. speeds on low bands: there’s a definition that 4G speeds should exceed 1Gbps and on LTE this only happens with full CA performing at 100%. If CA is not at it’s maximum (and often it’s not), then max speeds are more around 100Mbps (if you’re lucky) or lower, so 3.9G (3.5G was used for HSDPA which could do around 15Mbps in downlink). As others already explained, lower bands offer larger coverage but capacity is lower, so yes, this means lower throughputs (even if signal strength is excellent) … often shared between higher number of users making actual user throughput even lower. So indeed one has to adjust expectations in these scenarios. Stable throughput of around 5-10Mbps may be maximum achievable. However, sometimes CA (for downlink) is possible even if higher frequency cell (which has higher capacity) is not suitable as stand-alone cell (e.g. because Tx power of device is not high enough to get uplink going) and in such case fownlink throughput can be quite decent, uplink won’t shine though because it’ll use the low-capacity low-frequency cell.

(Sorry , didn’t see #51, before I already transmitted this)


And yes “MT cell lock” according to MT support still allows other cells to be measured and reported as candidates. That is a potential MT “cell lock” mechanism implementation.
But … as I have enough MT devices to test this: I have tested that If a band is ticked off in a MT modem (not ticked as enabled), then that MT router does not see any cells in that band anymore. The cells disappeared in the LTE monitor output.

I’m only using “/interface lte band”

/interface lte
set [ find ] allow-roaming=yes apn-profiles=SFRbox band=1,3,7,2 mtu=1500 name=lte1 network-mode=lte

I’m not a user of the “MT cell lock” feature, a R11e-LTE and R11e-LTE6 feature and setting, via AT commands: “AT*Cell=,,,,”.
It can probably be done: that way, see MT help: “Note, that cell lock is not band-specific and for ca-band it can also use other frequency bands, unless you use band lock.”

Just one more : 800MHz is very very common for LTE connections (4G), as it goes over large distances and penetrates the walls better than higher frequencies.
Band B28 (700MHz) is not common. But in France it is a very good and fast band for operator “FREE”. Other operators in France started to use it as well. It is 4G speed !.
https://www.frandroid.com/guide-dachat/smartphones/606502_700-mhz-b28-quels-sont-les-meilleurs-smartphones-pour-free-mobile

@mkx is right. And @bpwl shows the way. Another thing that goes on is modem firmware also have a “carrier files” that can get loaded – and that also alter behavior – even on the same modem… Basically you don’t control much in LTE… You do have access to the AT commands, so you can change anything the modem has to offer, even outside of Mikrotik’s UI…

The thing you most control is where exactly its gets mounted & that’s likely going the biggest factor in performance…

Like, for example, @normis’ takes a curious approach with his ATL…
https://youtu.be/ghSPsiOuFzg?t=380
e.g. shooting LTE over a metal roof that likely to have some effect on the signal quality. How much? No one would know unless @normis moved it… but imagine he picked that spot since it was easier to install, knowing it effect his performance at least some what. You might have to make similar compromises on placement… or use your time planning/figuring out mounting to maximize possible LOS to the tower…

On that video, he did say he first tested various locations and positions.

I would like to thank everyone one more time!
I will research my buying options and if/when I have some hands-on experience, I will share it.

Thank you, friends!

Hi,

I just wanted to share my results with the ATL which I already received and mounted. That is to Cell 1:

primary-band: B3@20Mhz earfcn: 1800 phy-cellid: …
ca-band: B8@5Mhz earfcn: 3516 phy-cellid: …
dl-modulation: 64qam
cqi: 11
ri: 2
mcs: 16
rssi: -56dBm
rsrp: -84dBm
rsrq: -8dB
sinr: 17dB

This gives me the full speeds claimed by the MNO.
Thanks again to everyone.