no_country_set (regulatory domain) and fixed frequency for 5GHz channel

RouterOS Beginner Basics
1

Just received my hAP ac2 and when I try to set it to my country (Netherlands) for WiFi through WebFig it says “only regulatory domain allowed for this country”
Now of course I’ve been reading the forums but all I can find is people who are bound to a regulatory domain and the only choice they’re getting in the drop down menu is, for example, usa3
However, I get presented a complete list of countries but cannot change it.
Not a huge problem, but it also means I can only set my 5GHz frequency to auto.
I find this very weird because, even with routers supplied by local internet providers, I’ve always had the ability to set a frequency myself. So is the auto frequency setting for 5GHz tied to the regulatory domain restrictions?
I can understand the choice of frequencies gets limited when being tied to a regulatory domain, but why not let me choose a fixed frequency within those boundaries? I can do that for 2.4GHz so why not for 5GHz?
(No computer available at the moment so I can only use WebFig to change the configuration of the hAP ac2)

[edit] I was trying things out and decided to reset the unit. Now it defaults to country setting “etsi”. Why that has changed idk but I did update it yesterday. Changed country to Netherlands (and now it took) but still can’t set a fixed frequency for 5GHz. Oh and WiFi speeds are abysmal now: 5Mbps down and 20Mbps up on a gigabit connection… :frowning: [/edit]

2

WiFi is a bit tricky, but can be optimized quiet well (I get around 400Mbps on my cAP ac).
Though I use CaPsMAN, it gives a good direction on settings on wireless.

I use (which works fine in the Netherlands) these settings:
Frequency: 5500
Control Channel Width: 20Mhz
Band: 5ghz-a/n/ac
Extension channel: Ceee
Hw. Retries: 4
Country: netherlands
Distance: indoor
Basic Rates: 12Mbps
Support Rates: 12Mbps - 54Mbps

3

That doesn’t sound right. Does it not allow you to set the specific frequency, or doesn’t even offer any choices? Can you post some screenshot, that includes image of the problematic menu and also the version of software is visible?

4

Setting the country for regulatory domain is a bit tricky …

You have to enter all 4 values at once before you press “Apply”.

Frequency Mode
Country
Installation
Antenna gain

And antenna gain must be equal to or bigger than the antenna gain of the built in antenna . (hAP ac2 minimum antenna gain is 3)

Otherwise you get the error message as you mentioned.

Fixed frequency for channels above 48 you enter is the “preferred frequency”. DFS can always overrule your preferred frequency if “priority” devices are detected. DFS cannot be disabled.

(Higher antenna gain entered will reduce the radio power accordingly, to be within the legal EIRP strenght with the calculated value, and as such the real TX power is reduced.)

5

The Netherlands are part of the ETSI region. It’s all the same limits.

country-info –
country-list –
default-scan-list –
hw-info –
scan-list –



[admin@hAPac2] /interface/wireless/info> country-info netherlands
ranges: 2402-2482/b,g,gn20,gn40(20dBm)
2417-2457/g-turbo(20dBm)
5170-5250/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(23dBm)/passive,indoor
5170-5330/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(20dBm)/dfs,passive,indoor
5250-5330/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(20dBm)/dfs,passive,indoor
5490-5710/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(27dBm)/dfs,passive
5190-5310/a-turbo(20dBm)/dfs
5180-5300/a-turbo(20dBm)/dfs
5520-5680/a-turbo(27dBm)/dfs,passive
5510-5670/a-turbo(27dBm)/dfs,passive
902-927/b,g,g-turbo,gn20,gn40(30dBm)

[admin@hAPac2] /interface/wireless/info> country-info etsi
ranges: 2402-2482/b,g,gn20,gn40(20dBm)
5170-5250/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(23dBm)/passive,indoor
5170-5330/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(20dBm)/dfs,passive,indoor
5250-5330/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(20dBm)/dfs,passive,indoor
5490-5710/a,an20,an40,ac20,ac40,ac80,ac160,ac80+80(27dBm)/dfs,passive
5190-5310/a-turbo(20dBm)/dfs
5180-5300/a-turbo(20dBm)/dfs
5520-5680/a-turbo(27dBm)/dfs,passive
5510-5670/a-turbo(27dBm)/dfs,passive
902-927/b,g,g-turbo,gn20,gn40(30dBm)

[admin@hAPac2] /interface/wireless/info>

6

Recommended reading on the 5 GHz DFS and other limits: https://metis.fi/en/2018/02/5ghz-channels/

Petri Riihikallio has many interesting articles there, that clarify a lot about good wifi practices.

7

Thanks for the response guys, I appreciate it.
Looks like I ran into a glitch of either my Android browser (Firefox) or the WebFig interface. Sometimes I get just "Auto" from the drop down menu, other times I'm getting a list with frequencies.
Anyways, I have it set to 5.220 (44) now so no DFS interfering with my preferred channel setting.

Thanks bpwl
I've just kept the default etsi setting now but the weird thing is it doesn't display the 3db antenna gain (it displays 0). When I try to set it to Netherlands it does indeed require me to set it to 3db.

Thanks for the suggested settngs.
I pressume Extension channel, Hardware retries, Basic rates and Support rates are all part of CaPsManN?
I don't see these settings in my WiFi setup.

8

WAW interesting …with the hAP ac2 I cannot see the current TX power. So I don’t know how the ETSI with 0 dBi gain works.

Testing 2.4 GHz

But on the wAP ac (mipsbe) the current TX power is shown.
European Country set: minimum gain is 2 dBi for wAp ac … TX power 15dBm and 18 dBm total (-> EIRP =20 dBm)
ETSI set as region, minimum is not enforced, so using zero … TX power 17dBm and 20 dBm total (-> EIRP = 22 dBm , this is illegal and no good at all to serve clients)

Would be interesting to see, if this can overrule the “SXTsq 5 ac” 16 dBi minimal antenna gain setting. Illegal but interesting for temporarly beafing up PtP and PtMP backhaul connections.

9

Same here, using etsi the TX Power is set to regulatory domain so no idea what it’s doing with the 0 dBi gain setting.

10

With ETSI as country and the antenna gain on 0 dBi (instead of the real 2 dBi) you are sending out a stronger EIRP signal than the max allowed for the ETSI regulation region.
The EIRP is higher than the allowed value. Remember that the EIRP is penalising the amplification of the antenne, because the “I” means that the radiation is supposed to be isotropic, that it is as strong as the directional amplification of the antenna, but then in all directions (isotropic).

So instead of the allowed 20 dBm , your EIRP is 22 dBm.

I cannot tell this from the information from the “hAP ac2” or “SXTsq 5 ac”, as there is no information in “current TX power” for those chipsets in RouterOS.

But when I read the wireless “registration” information in an AP I use, like the wAP ac , there I have a TX and an RX value. Typical -52 dBm as strenght here in house, and if the AP is on the first floor it drops to -72 dBm. Actually, and that is very strange the TX from the wAP is now much stronger than the RX from the SXT 5 ac. The antenna gain is supposed to work in both direction. But with the concrete floor inbetween it seems not to work that well for the SXTsq. The wAp does better so I get -52/-72 as reading. Now the experiment … selecting ETSI region and antenna gain on zero. (Minimum and real is 16 dBi for an SXTsq!), and that is quite different. The reading in the wAP for registration changes to -52/-56 . The SXTsq signal is much stronger now. Actually I think I had an EIRP of 27+16 = 43 dBm , far above the legal limit. Power of the 5 GHz is supposed to be 27 dBm because I use the 5500 MHz frequency, the antenna add’s another 16 dBi in a narrow angle That must be reflecting on the ceiling. Both devices now have somewhat the same total radio power. But the EIRP definition is totally different. This experiment is in house, I never saw that asymmetric value before outdoors, but I may be wrong. I only ran this shortly, because I do not want to sit near that strong signal for a long time, and its illegal anyway if used outdoors.

11

" pressume Extension channel, Hardware retries, Basic rates and Support rates are all part of CaPsManN?"

No, in advanced mode (!) for the interface its also under “Data rate”, “Advanced”, “HT” and “HT MCS” .

Don’t use the “auto” frequency selection for the 2.4 GHz channel, select 1, 6 or 11 yourselves. If your neigborgs choose something else (because of “auto”?) that’s bad for the adjacent-channel interference. Channels must be 4 apart (5 for 801.2b) , that’s tricky in 2.4 GHz, its always so in 5 GHz implementations … 36-40-44-48…

Do you really need that Ceee ? That’s an 80 Mhz channel width!. There are not many options to put that down. 40 MHz is more common in 5 GHz. Less interference , longer distance. And with 2 spatial streams you can have 400 MHz speed rate over 40 MHz.

12

I really appreciate your input guys but please keep in mind this is the Beginner Basics forum.
Lots of things I’m reading don’t make any sense to me :smiley:
I’ve been trying erlinden’s settings but that left me with the lowest possible rates I could imagine… (6 Mbps down???)
Back to pretty much the basic settings now and no complaints (I’ve always treated WiFi as a “there’s no wired here so I’ll have to deal with it” option).
Still, an average over 150 Mbps while the hAP ac2 isn’t even in the spot I eventually want it to be. So I’m happy.

13

Ooops … carried away with the interesting option of using ETSI as regulatory domain and having no minimal dBi enforcement

Forget the experiment with ETSI as a beginner, it is valuable once you have enough experience.

Here the extract that is of some value to you: your current setting is OK. freq 5220, 20 MHz or 20/40 MHz Ce, regulatory domain, Netherlands or ETSI, 3 dBi antenna gain)

Additional info is:

European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI)

With ETSI as country and the antenna gain set on 0 dBi (instead of the real 3 dBi) you are sending out a stronger signal than the max allowed legally for European countries.
So instead of the allowed 20 dBm , your signal strength is 23 dBm
.
" pressume Extension channel, Hardware retries, Basic rates and Support rates are all part of CaPsManN?"
No, in advanced mode (!) for the interface it is also under “Data rate”, “Advanced”, “HT” and “HT MCS” .

14

Thanks again bpwl
May I ask why 20 MHz or 20/40 MHz?
Default is 20/40/80 XXXX

15

Why suggest only up to 40 MHz? I can’t explain it better than here: https://metis.fi/en/2018/02/5ghz-channels/ , as I already referred to.

You don’t want to wait until all is quiet, you don’t want interference, and the weather channels have very long delays (10 minutes at startup), energy density is also a point.
This leaves only 4 frequencies for 80 MHz channels to be used. (UNII-3 is not in the available range)
In Ceee notation: 36, 52, 100, 132
It depends on your (wifi) environment if a wide channel is an optimal choice or not.
With freq 5220 you would fill up channel 44 till 56 and interfere with 80 MHz wide channels starting at channel 36 and 52.
Klembord-2.jpg

16

Keep it as 20/40/80 xxxx is my recommendation

If you have MacBook and newer phones they will use 80Mhz channels!
Other clients will still get 20Mhz channel (this is switched dynamically by the Wifi driver per client…)
No need to limit down things here.

In Wifi, if you don’t know what you do, leave all on auto…!