Idea toward MikroTik licensing for development

RouterOS General
1

Hello,

Hopefully @Normis and others will read this post. Would MikroTik consider taking on offering PAID licensing for "Enteprise RouterOS release’?

IE: MikroTik Enterprise subscription for a special RouterOS Enterprise build.

Let the Enterprise subscriptions FUND the development of regular rolling RouterOS releases. The enterprise licensing will provide active support by MikroTik. This would be helpful for those of us needing REAL support and answers to issues.

This can also help address current bugs/issues and let the development team quickly address and release a fix. The fix can then be later pushed down to the regular RouterOS Stable branch.

This could also build more trust from the outside as enterprise perspective.

I see this as a revenue stream for MikroTik and to help you all work on producing better quality software releases… Ya’ll have lost your identity lately as being “Route the World” vision. There needs to be a better way…

2

I mean, sure there’s probably many people who would pay for it, but wasn’t the idea always to be “license cost free”?

Im not complaining about “enterprise features” being locked down.

In fact i would love a slimmed down version (especially for the 16MB devices :wink: )
And for the devices I deploy at homes with people that don’t actually know much. Usually I just apply a skin that locks them out of almost everything.

3

Yeah - this could be a solution or later work-around for those existing and current devices with only 16Mb of storage…

I’ve also previously suggested they release a stripped down RouterOS version that we can install on access points that will be CAPS managed from centralized CAPsMan controller. To only have TCP/IP stack, firewall, cap, and wireless drivers.

But ideally. I feel a RouterOS Enterprise build that is locked behind a subscription where we receive proper support and releases. This will fund current and future software development, also better control of bugs/issues that be reported from professionals/enterprise users and deployments.

The standard Router OS** could and should still remain free and included with all hardware…

As it stands, we already pay for CHR license. Along with license upgrade for MikroTik Level4-6…
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/spaces/ROS/pages/328149/RouterOS+license+keys

I feel there is a great opportunity for RouterOS Enterprise… [3-year and 5-year subscription]. Perhaps this subscription they figure out how to include IPS/IDS.

4

MikroTIk has enough funds to hire developers, license subscription would not change anything :slight_smile: We are commited to providing enterprise level software without subscriptions.

5

Interesting note… So do it then.. :slight_smile:

We like to see the continued development of RouterOS - better software QA and focus on your core network. Fixes and enhancements of the current RouterOS 7.0 train.

Otherwise, RouterOS Enterprise should still be considered. Funny how you mention “Software without subscriptions”. But yet, MikroTik sells Level4-6 licenses, along with CHR licenses..

RouterOS Enterprise can easily be done with your current licensing ties to device serial. Offer paid support for direct level access to real issues, this will increase awareness of issues/bugs and steps to better releases. Also, the possibility of IPS/IDS integration or other threat protection packages/option…

6

I’m not native English speaker, so it may be my poor understanding … but isn’t purchase (one-time payment … in MT case with life-time support) a bit different than subscription (recurrent payment … where support ends when payments cease)?

7

This is why I love MikroTik.

Don’t cross over to the dark side…subscription based licensing.

8

Its kind of trend nowadays :smiley:

9

Haha that’s the point…there are dozens of vendors that take your money every month/year to keep the license current.

There are very few that use perpetual licensing anymore.

10

This idea has come up multiple times over the years on this forum.

I, too, detest the subscription licensing garbage world we find ourselves in nowadays, and MikroTik’s software licensing is a breath of fresh air. I hope they never change it.

But as I brought up last time I remember discussing this a decade ago, I also want to be able to pay MikroTik MORE money, in order to receive better support. It’s all well and good to say that MT is committed to providing “enterprise level software”, but I’d also like some enterprise level support to go with my enterprise software, please and thank you.

It seems like it is obviously not sustainable to offer amazing support, for free, to everyone, to go along with amazing software that is priced the way it is. The cracks have been evident in the support model for a while, which just leads to frustrations all around. Now, by all means: keep the regular free support option available. I think it’s great to have that on offer. But for those who need both faster response times as well as bug and/or feature prioritization, there are those of us who would love to be able to pay you more in exchange for that. Yes, I am nervous that offering such a thing – at least if architected the wrong way – could lead to shifting perverse incentives at MT HQ. But there has to be a way to do something like this in a sustainable fashion that is good for both MT and the customers who need this sort of thing.

In the very early days, MT had a paid “extended support program”, but it didn’t last long for understandable reasons. That was also a long time ago, though, and MikroTik was a much smaller operation back then. It might make sense to re-visit that decision.

Since the discontinuation of the ESP, the party line from MikroTik has been that if you want to pay somebody for a higher level of support than you can get from MikroTik, you can always avail yourself of a certified consultant. But that is NOT a solution to the problem. Certified consultants and trainers have ZERO access to the codebase. 9 out of 10 times, what I want to be able to pay extra for when it comes to “enterprise support” is not mere hand-holding. What I want is to be able to log a ticket about what I suspect is a bonafide software bug, have this bug report get turbo’d up to the MT software devs to be reproduced and verified, and once it has been, to get a fix EXPEDITED, rather than sit in a queue along with everybody else’s reports (and miscellaneous hand-holding support requests) for the next 6+ months. It would also be most excellent if we could even pay for the privilege of having some bug fixes get backported to older long-term releases (as long as it is feasible).

11

This has been batted around for at least 15 years…probably more. The challenge always seems to be the cost of building a “TAC” at a price point that isn’t inconsistent with the price point of the hardware/software.

For most vendors, support is purchased per box. If you by an RB5009 for ~$200 but the support costs $500 per year, per box, would you still opt for that?

If not, what would you be willing to pay or how would you structure it differently?

12

Only as an idea (not necessarily a good one, and not necessarily applicable to Mikrotik) I have a license for a completely unrelated local (Italian) accounting software with what I find an interesting licensing formula, basically:
a) you pay the license only once (lifetime license)
b) each year you can freely choose among 4 options (but you MUST select one for next year in advance, or you will pay assistance - if needed - at an increased price AND you will loose the extra time you may have available from the years before), like:

  1. assistance base packet 30 minutes
  2. assistance lite packet 50 minutes
  3. assistance standard packet 110 minutes
  4. assistance premium packet 210 minutes
    If you subscribe to the yearly packet, even the very low cost “base” one, you keep in your account the unused minutes from the years before (they do not “expire”) otherwise the minutes become 0 at each new years day.

This allows both e-mail and telephone assistance, in real-time or almost real-time and (since it is a small software firm) you are often able to talk directly to the programmer that manages the part of the program you are having an issue with.

When/if you report an issue, if it is a bug, they solve it and count the time needed to solve it with you as “free assistance” (partially or totally), and they are very honest about it.

Attaching a report they send, from which you can see how it works.
assistance_report.JPG

13

I am only suggesting paid license for a different release of RouterOS – dedicated RouterOS Enterprise. This would be a different build, enterprise stable and you can pay for yearly TAC support. This gives us direct line of communication and support; one throat to choke. Many organizations also REQUIRE vendor hardware to have support included and ability for RMA. There are other organizations where we can deploy any hardware we wish, and not have to obey by that rule.

The paid RouterOS Enterprise route – segment the “Enterprise” hardware and align with that vertical…

Or alternative suggestion would be for MikroTik to offer PAID support as an add-on option for various devices. This can be an optional yearly based subscription offering, or a tiered approach with various hours or tickets per year. Although, those can be harder to internally track. Be easier for MikroTik to tie a customers serial number to a subscription, and then their support engineers will see if support is active or not…

I feel the CCR products or any of the existing/future “Enterprise ready” hardware should offer this paid support. This in turn will help MikroTik work on bugs and software QA.

The license-free model on the “consumer” or “prosumer” hardware is just fine - good with that.

Most the time, we’re on our own island when comes to real issues with MikroTik.

Look at others; including ourselves giving up on MikroTIk for wireless and even routing. We’ve lost confidence as of now; we will revisit as we see their direction and leadership change course.

14

But as I brought up > last time I remember discussing this > a decade ago, I also want to be able to pay MikroTik MORE money, in order to receive better support. It’s all well and good to say that MT is committed to providing “enterprise level software”, but I’d also like some enterprise level > support > to go with my enterprise software, please and thank you.

1000% this… Even Ubiq… is now offering paid support. As they’ve gotten bad rap and trashed over years for not having such. MikroTik software flexibility is much better, however. But the software or hardware [Wireless] is a problem. Look at recent wireless post from a long-time user who had a FAILED MikroTik wireless deployment for a school… that is a sour taste for a long-time advocate.
If there was paid support, I am sure this customer would have had much higher chance for a successful deployment… Perhaps even publish a case study…


It seems like it is obviously not sustainable to offer amazing support, for free, to everyone, to go along with amazing software that is priced the way it is. The cracks have been evident in the support model for a while, which just leads to frustrations all around. Now, by all means: keep the regular free support option available. I think it’s great to have that on offer. But for those who need both faster response times as well as bug and/or feature prioritization, there are those of us who would love to be able to pay you more in exchange for that. Yes, I am nervous that offering such a thing – at least if architected the wrong way – could lead to shifting perverse incentives at MT HQ. But there has to be a way to do something like this in a sustainable fashion that is good for both MT and the customers who need this sort of thing.

In the very early days, MT had a paid “extended support program”, but it didn’t last long for > understandable reasons> . That was also a long time ago, though, and MikroTik was a much smaller operation back then. It might make sense to re-visit that decision.

Since the discontinuation of the ESP, the party line from MikroTik has been that if you want to pay somebody for a higher level of support than you can get from MikroTik, you can always avail yourself of a certified consultant. But that is NOT a solution to the problem. Certified consultants and trainers have ZERO access to the codebase. 9 out of 10 times, what I want to be able to > pay extra > for when it comes to “enterprise support” is not mere hand-holding. What I want is to be able to log a ticket about what I suspect is a bonafide software bug, have this bug report get turbo’d up to the MT software devs to be reproduced and verified, and once it has been, to get a fix EXPEDITED, rather than sit in a queue along with everybody else’s reports (and miscellaneous hand-holding support requests) for the next 6+ months. It would also be most excellent if we could even pay for the privilege of having some bug fixes get backported to older long-term releases (as long as it is feasible).

I concur with your thoughts. Their “free” support model is not sustainable. Their ticketing and support email inbox gets hammered, who know’s what their process is like and how they filter or triage the incoming tickets…

Yes, Certified trainers are STILL on their own island. It is up to the individual, with their overall MikroTik and network knowledge/experience to be able to address issues for most deployments. But when there are real bugs or non-starter issues, where do we go?

What I want is to be able to log a ticket about what I suspect is a bonafide software bug, have this bug report get turbo’d up to the MT software devs to be reproduced and verified, and once it has been, to get a fix EXPEDITED, rather than sit in a queue along with everybody else’s reports (and miscellaneous hand-holding support requests) for the next 6+ months. It would also be most excellent if we could even pay for the privilege of having some bug fixes get backported to older long-term releases (as long as it is feasible).What I want is to be able to log a ticket about what I suspect is a bonafide software bug, have this bug report get turbo’d up to the MT software devs to be reproduced and verified, and once it has been, to get a fix EXPEDITED, rather than sit in a queue along with everybody else’s reports (and miscellaneous hand-holding support requests) for the next 6+ months. It would also be most excellent if we could even pay for the privilege of having some bug fixes get backported to older long-term releases (as long as it is feasible).

This goes a long way..

15

Taking a step back here… in a lot of ways… you’re just asking for the return of the “long-term” channel — which is sorely missing. And any kind of “enterprise” thing generally has good documentation(+KB/guides) and training/certification — which are also lacking. So investing some resources to improving those things should be a priority is something I’d agree with.

I get you’re asking for more, but

  1. Can you give an example of some issue you’ve had where this need comes up?
  2. Is it configuration help, bugs, missing features, interop with other vendors, hardware failure, etc. you’re needing a higher level of support than what’s offered?
  3. How much per year/per device are you willing to pay? i.e. would you still be willing to buy the “enterprise version” at 200+% price of the hardware per year?

Cisco sales is happy to sell you “executive visibility” (your “one throat to choke”) — but it doesn’t really change how quickly something got fixed… just someone with a good title to tell you the entire team is diligently working on it. If you have a large budget and really need to use MikroTik, have you tried emailing sales to see what they say?

16

Also, a related idea is a “source code license” that might be some middle ground here. Years ago even Microsoft would license the source code to NT (at high cost, under strict NDA, and to select ISV) & many other smaller vendors did offer the source code to proprietary software , for a price.

17

Their paid support, or them bringing back the ESP option SHOULD be revisited…

They can use a ticketing platform, even FreshDesk or ZenDesk…

Have required fields when submitting a ticket.

Required field of device serial number
Required field be that of uploading a supout.rif file.

This is all quite standard practice these days.

18

They should explore the options of selling hardware with RouterOS and then we add-on license; all OPTIONAL. The license binds to the serial/product. Cambium does it. Other’s do it.

Most add-on subscriptions for the hardware are quite reasonable… [Optional for the CCR type devices - not worth their time to support hAPs].

IE:
Standard support - regular business hours, set SLA [12-hour response]. 20% of device cost
Gold support - set business hours, better SLA time. 30% of device cost
Add-on for RMA options - NBD replacement(s) – this be like insurance policy from MIkroTik, easy revenue stream. Distributors do not offer this.

Support would be ideal for those struggling with MIkroTik wireless. We all know this is a sore subject. Or those running MikroTik as core BGP router with full tables.

Pepperidge farm remembers the earlier CCR hardware that would spontaneously reboot…

19

Yeah, exactly. RouterOS Enterprise – Paid option - direct access. Fixes either back ported or pushed downstream to the RouterOS long-term channel.

RouterOS - Long-term, Stable, Beta - Users can submit issues as we do. New hardware ship with Stable.
RouterOS Enterprise - Set “long-term” rolling release. Subscription based

However, alot of this could be alleviated with their own controller - or cloud controller. Entirely different convo.

I’m just wasting time and resources here by giving my perspective and wants. We’re already moving to other vendors that better suite our current needs and use cases. This allows us to better serve our customers. I feel this will be a shared opinion by others who are throwing hands in the air with the current state of things. [MikroTik lack of innovation and keeping up].

Or they need to remove themselves from the wireless segment… this is the biggest gripe. Focus on 60Ghz and PtP / PtMP radio’s, and all the surrounding hardware.

20

Even this post from 2014…