[quote=ccpaulin post_id=666259 time=1528179013 user_id=91464]
The rain affects the attenuation and polarization of millimeter waves, shielding will not lessen the impact of rain.
“At the millimeter wave frequency of 60GHz, the atmospheric absorption is very high, with 98 percent of the transmitted energy absorbed by atmospheric oxygen. While oxygen absorption at 60GHz severely limits range, it also eliminates interference between same frequency terminals.
A 60GHz communications system must overcome the effects of oxygen absorption, 16dB/KM. In order to operate reliably at even short ranges, a very focused, narrow-beam antenna must also be employed to increase the level of signal available to the target receiver. This combination of oxygen absorption and narrow beam transmission enhances the security of the 60GHz radio link, minimizing the probability of unauthorized intercept.”
Check the rain level in your area.
This can help: https://www.e-band.com/index.php?id=86
[/quote]This is exactly the reason I asked the question. [quote]?? Photo’s of the antenna and the type of shield? Would the shield make any difference in respect of the rain?
[/quote]
We’ve recently had some heavy rains here (reduced visibility to 500 meters due the rain) and the 50-100 meters 60Ghz links with the w60G units had no issue to stay up. (There was no traffic though, but the parameters stayed fine).
We also had some 300 - 350 meter (Ignitenet) 60 GHz links that lost 6 to 9 dB of signal but they managed to stay connected.
So I am really wondering what the LHG 60Ghz link would do under ‘it is raining cats and dogs’ conditions.
The photo’s and movie of the test case of ‘djvolt1942’ are nice but I can’t call that serious rain (nor snow).
This guy in Hawaii with its rain forest alike tropical climate must be able to show us some real life downpour conditions on his link… I can’t believe it didn’t rain over there since the initial setup… :o
Nevertheless I am dying to buy one of the first sets of LHGG60 when they come available in Europe/Spain. I have plenty use for them… My dreams are to have all my 100 - 1500 meters links replaced by 60 GHz links in an interference free low latency high capacity and affordable backbone network! If I can’t beat the ‘big’ competitors in money I have to play it smart… 
E-Band like Siklu ETH v1200 works at 2500meters at 76GHz!!!.. 16GHz difference and only 500MHz width!
WirelessRudy - do you have in Spain the Snowy days? 
If yes the standard LHG60 doesnt work That’s why the first links are in Hawaii where there will never be snow… IgniteNet ML-60-35 is ok max up to 1700m.
This are the first stable link thats we made at February at Havy Snowy Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87kzOolah8A
This is not LHG 60G in that video and has nothing to do with this thread.
Different frequencies has different oxygen absorption parameters. 60GHz frequency is at it’s worst.
In Latvia there are snowy winters and Rainy days - 1500m worked fine alrady before all the major improvements from latest RC releases.
Rain adds some attenuation, but link will stay stable.
Self made antennas won’t provide such precision as used in LHG60G as well as there will be no suitable calibration for them.
P.S.
If You will continue to push out Your solution in every post you make, we will be forced to limit your forum access.
Dear antonsb please answer for my email question about LHG60 
Is it possible or not possible to get what I am asking for…
That’s another band and also not a free one. There are plenty of solutions on the market to bridge 2500 meters. But mostly licensed of very, very expensive… let’s stick to the topic.
WirelessRudy > - do you have in Spain the Snowy days? >
We have rarely snow in Spain. I live here now for 16 years and have seen 3 times a morning with a snow deck. In the afternoon it was gone…
Rain is more regular so that’s where my concern lies. Although heavy rain is also a pretty rare event here… but it happens, 2 or 3 times a year…
I have 4 Metrolink 60Ghz links running but it took me 2 complete set of RMA’s (ALL units!) to keep them running and still they give regular cuts. These units are not worth the money but at the time no economical alternative.
Hence I am waiting for the Mikrotik solution. So far these small (w60G) devices work splendid. Easy to align, easy to setup, affordable, high capacity and small form factor. What more does a man need? Well, some bigger distance. If the new LHG60G devices are as good as their small brothers they will be a landscape mover in short range wireless networking…
I have a dense populated area to serve and use Mimosa 5ghz for high capacity delivery (up to 200Mbps!). But a w60G as CPE is cheaper then a Mimosa CPE and it works better then the Mimosa too! What a pity we are limited to 7 clients per AP…
No, after the w60G devices I fell completely in love (again) with Mikrotik. But for short distances only…
[/quote]
In my opinion,
snow when snowing is no big problem
in Poland we have sticky snow in windy winter day , in about 0 temperature,
its make all antena in beaten sticky snow
antenna lokls like that
we haeve that weather 2 - 12 days in a year
its cut ~~ 20 db from grid and ~~15 db from dish antennas 5g
dry snow is less problematic, most problem make snow around 0 degree, whitch is sticky,and wet
i think that will kill 60g LHG link
due to antenna construction
Regards
Please keep in mind that stated 1.5km range is with including weather factors.
We have a Wap 60G client connected to a Wap 60G basestation since last week. Distance 204 meters. (Only one other client to this AO at 50 meters).
mcs 4
phy-rate:1155.0Mbps
signal : 40
rssi :-69
tx-sector : 28
tx-sector-info: left 3.8 degrees, down 3.8 degrees
rx-sector : 96
I can ‘pump’ some 400+mbps over the link so that is fine. But rain fade is an issue. We’ve had a good but moderate rain shower over weekend and the link dropped a couple of times during this. As soon the severity took off it came back. Actually by the signal I could see the shower increasing or decreasing in its intensity.
This was not a shower like a tropical downpour, we still had some 1000 or more meters visibility. But it shows that these little brothers are effected by serious rain if on the edge of their reach.
The other units at 50mtrs didn’t even drop in signal.
I am sure as soon as we have some 60G LHG we can replace this little one by its bigger sister and we have no more rain issue on this link…
I have prrtty much same problem. Water is a big issue. This weekend signal dropped by 23dBm on 400m. I didnt get my hands on lhg60 yet ( not on stock ) but it seems that signal can drop over 50dBm on 1km. I am using dish with radom. Maybe water on radom is that problem… I dont know. Does anyone has data from lhg in bigger rain?
I also have another question on mikrotik. Are you planning any kind of improvements on ptmp? It works kinda like 802.11b… More clients = slower speed. Also do you have any plans for backed up lhg with 5GHz?
water on radome cover will affect link quality a lot more than water covering parabolic dish.
PTMP improvements will be added in upcoming versions.
Hello,
we have a test LHG ptp link 850m and it’s light rain now and i don’t see rain impact, data like in sunny day, see data below
interface w60g monitor wlan60-1
connected: yes
frequency: 62640
remote-address: deleted-mac
mcs: 8
phy-rate: 2.3Gbps
signal: 80
rssi: -61
tx-sector: 15
tx-sector-info: right 1.4 degrees, down 1 degrees
rx-sector: 96
signal: 80
rssi: -61
tx-sector: 15
tx-sector-info: right 1.4 degrees, down 1 degrees
rx-sector: 96
Would be nice to get some better explanation on these data (I am not talking the values!)
Yes, that would be good, because now i guess.
Mikrotik Team, please add to wiki the meaning of values and max min possible values also.
More background info on the LHG G60 Project in Hawaii.
It is located on the island of Oahu, within the city of Honolulu. - - So, no Volcanoes, the active volcanoes you are seeing in the news are located in a very small area on the island of Hawaii about 363 Kilometers (225 Miles) away.
The ends of the links are located in an area that is East of the beach resort area known as Waikiki. - - So, it is not in a Tropoical Rain Forest. The Rain Forest areas on Oahu are up higher and behind the mountains you see in the background.
One end is located on a 4.6m tall Non-Penetrating Mast located on a 6m tall roof section of the “Waikiki Shell” (a music/concert venue). This is the end that I was pictured with when installing the LHGG60.
The other end was mounted on a transportable testing mast that was located atop a 25-Story building called “Fairway House”.
Light rain has had minimal effect.
In all fairness, the alignment on the Waikiki Shell unit is slightly off by about 2º~3º, however, it performs very well on sunny days. As this is a secured government owned facility, I have to make special arrangements to determine when I can be up on that rooftop. For the past few weeks there have been University and High School Graduation events being held there and I have not been able to work out a time for me to be up there. Now that those events have subsided, I hope to get up there in the next week - - Any body that happens to be in Honolulu/Waikiki at that time is welcome to join me for the site visit.
There has not yet been what I would consider a “Heavy Rain” event in this area as yet… I’m waiting for a “Cats and Dogs” or “Tropical Storm” Heavy Rain event to run extensive testing.
From everything I have read on the subject, the 60GHz frequency is more limited due to Oxygen absorption than rain fade.
Snow??? Not at this location… Snow DOES occur in Hawaii, however, only at the much higher elevations found on the mountains located on the island of Hawaii and Maui during the winter months.
Fortunately, the Waikiki Shell venue is an Outdoor Venue, and as such is a perfect test site as it would not be a major concern if there were a drop of bandwidth during heavy rains… I think they would close the facility, cancel any performances and/or not be in full operation during heavy rains.
The unit I received was perhaps an early release, or early production unit off the assembly line, with the original (typical) Signal Strength LEDs. The New RouterOS release candidate firmware upgrades the LHGG60 allowing the top five(5) LEDs to indicate a Minimal connection and Left, Right, Down and Up indicators. I believe that the plan is to have a sticker similar to the one shown below applied to the later LHGG60 units to indicate which LED will be for Left, Right, Down and Up.
While I await the approval to access the Waikiki Shell mast, I have moved the LHGG60 unit that was located on a small transportable tripod mast atop Fairway House to a permanent 60mm diameter steel pipe mast that has been installed between the floor and ceiling on the balcony right outside my 25th floor window. This will give me easier access to the unit at all hours of the day, not just when I was allowed to go up on the roof by the building manager. - - I will therefore be able to make alignment changes, updates and performance tests anytime I wish.
@jainge; Thanks for that info. Interesting tourist info too!
Anyway, it gives me the ‘feeling’ you actually had some early test versions / versions for test purposes only. How come? All the way in Hawaii? Did the Mikrotik guys happen to be there on holiday and had 2 of these units in their suitcase?
Together with the fact I haven’t seen any posts from nobody yet, apart from some statements from Mikrotik crew, it seems these units are not out in the field yet…
I am wondering why is that. According the many statements there could be hundreds of these out in the fields by now since they are said to be available for weeks now…
So far her in Europe the message from several suppliers is still ‘mid June’ available at wholesale… 
I find the whole ‘availability’ issue around these units a bit misty to say the least… 
Our supplier has confirmed today they have the LHG60G in stock and can send our order, but these are pairs preconfigured and only for PtP ,could someone give an indication of when these will be available for PtMP ?
I think you can connect LHG60 to same wAP60 with Licence 4 as AP You must only change SSID and security password
I am very sorry to all of you on this Forum. I initially posted my videos, photos and results to Facebook, on my Facebook page(s) https://www.facebook.com/jimaainge and that of the Millimeter Wave WISP Equipment Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1759357924369707/?ref=group_header. And the WISP Talk Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/249134358750920/
I acquired this Pair of Pre-Configutred LHGG60 units while I was at the 2018 MUM in Berlin, Germany.
They were in professionally printed packaging as a Pre-Configured pair and all of the printed cartons, product labeling and Serial Number/MAC Address labels were as if they were ready for distribution. Perhaps these were the first off of the production line that were flown in from the factory to be at the MUM.
These LHGG60 units were originally announced at the same time the wAP60G units were over a year ago when I was at the 2017 MUM in Milan, Italy.
I too waited anxiously for this LHGG60 and the wAP60G units to be released.
Once the wAP60G units were available, I had several communications with the MikroTik staff while I worked on another project I have here in Hawaii where I used the wAP60G product in a Exposition Hall.
I have four(4) wAP60G units setup in AP-Bridge Mode (PtMP) providing a 185,000 square foot Exposition Hall with Gigabit Class service to individual booths. For those booths that order Internet service, I temporarily install a wAP60G in Station-Bridge Mode in their booth to provide internet connectivity for their booth. Since the wAP60G in AP-Bridge Mode can support up to 8 Station-Bridge units, I can provide service to booths throughout the exposition show floor using up to 32 wAP60G Station-Bridge units.
I kept in contact with MikroTik Support and my Distributor, Baltic Networks, through out the planning, installation and final implementation of this project in February of 2018.
As I was providing feedback to MikroTik I became familiar with the support people that responded to my inquiries.
So when I came to the 2018 MUM in Berlin, Germany I was familiar with a few of the staff members that helped me to implement the 60GHz wAP60G product and understand its capabilities.
I was pleasantly surprised to finally see the LHGG60 at the 2018 MUM in Berlin, Germany in what looked to be final packaging… the previous year we only saw prototype units.
I was surprisingly selected to be a tester while I was at the MikroTik MUM. While I was at the MikroTik table asking about Rain Fade over a 1500m distance, I was asked by the staff if I actually had a 1,500m link currently available that I would be able to use this on. I had my laptop with me and showed them a 1,470m link on my network maps where I was required to replace an existing 1470m 39GHz link very soon as Verizon Wireless had recently acquired the license for the 39GHz frequency I was using and I was required to terminate usage of the frequency very soon.
They then brought out a “Wireless Wire Dish” box and asked if I had space in my luggage to take this back to Hawaii with me… my partner (wife) said “Yes” faster than I could take a breath. They then filled out a log sheet with the details of the link and the unit I was being provided with. I was the first one on the log. sheet There were a few more open lines on the form. I suspect that there are other testers out there, probably in Europe as I was one of handful of attendees from the U.S.A..
I posted an “Unboxing video” to Facebook while I was still in my hotel in Berlin, thus confirming the actual existence of the product in it’s soon to be released form https://www.facebook.com/jimaainge/videos/10156176743932510/
Once we got back to Hawaii I proceeded to install the pair of units and since then I have been applying new RouterOS Release candidate versions as requested and testing the newly added features of the LHGG60, its operation and performance.
You can look back through my postings on Facebook to see a few other postings on the installation and initial testing of the LHGG60.
Once I again gain access to the Waikiki Shell mast I will perform a better alignment using the new RouterOS release candidate firmware and conduct more testing to be reported back to MikroTik and post to this Forum.
The latest RouterOS rc update not only supports the new LED aiming/alignment interface, it is supposedly able to further improve the stability of the link and increase the maximum distance to +2,000m.
I can probably coordinate a test of the LHGG60 link up to, or near to, the 2000m distance if I temporarily set it up in the park located beyond the Waikiki Shell location… We’ll see how that works out.
In response to another posting, I do not see how a LHGG60 could be used as a PtMP AP as it has a very focused, approximately 3º maximum angle of coverage.
However, as I recall, I saw a question here and in the Facebook posting about using the LHGG60 as a Client in Station-Bridge Mode in a PtMP configuration… As far as I understand it, according to MikroTik support staff, the LHGG60 can be used as Client in Station-Bridge Mode with a wAP60G in AP-Bridge Mode (Level 4 License required) at full speed on distances of up to about 700m…? Perhaps someone from MikroTik can chime in on that to confirm and/or clarify this.
I cannot speak to the current availability of the LHGG60 as I too cannot order more units for myself at this time… and after testing this one, I Definitely want more of these units!
Perhaps I can order them to be drop shipped from the factory to Hawaii in order to save me on shipping costs. 
@jainge: Thanks for all that. So you where in fact ‘the lucky guy’. Good! And more good news, extended range to 2000km! That gives me a couple of more links I can use them for (Although I think at this distance heavy rain will bring it down so a 5Ghz backup should still be running.)
If I take a look at the pictures I’ve seen so far this LHG-dish having a slightly more dense honey-grate structure then the 5 and 2,4Ghz sisters? I would expect so since the wavelength of 60Ghz is so small it might miss the raster of the 2,4 and 5Ghz ones.
In fact I’d wondered why MT didn’t chose a thin metal foil. This would then also reduce the ‘sticky snow’ issue a bit for those that are affected by snow. (Not me!)
I think it would be no problem to use two of the LHG-60ad’s of the wireless kit as CPE’s in a P2MP setup. I’d presume all the hardware is the same and they run ROS! I have done the same with the small units.
Sometimes some providers sell the kit cheaper as two stand alone level 3 units so here you go…
According the law of physics, ie. antena gain and radio power, in analogy of all other radio wave transmissions, the signal strengt can be boosted by having either more powerful radio or a higher gain antena. Since the LHG-60ad most probably has the same hardware/radio as its smaller sisters all we have is a bigger gain antena and thus higher signal output as well as better receipt.
In using the LHG-60ad in a P2MP setup where a wAP 60G AP serves as AP we should have no issue to create cells of up to probably 500 to 750 meters (or more!)
The only caveat of 60Ghz on bigger distances, no matter how powerful the radio/how much gain the antenna, is that in end the energy is consumed by rain. And since the power budget on longer reaches drops pretty fast a bit of rain pushes the link over the edge.
But if you account for that (spare backhaul/failover) then I think the 60Ghz platform is a very nice product line.
(I worked now for over a year with Ignitenet’s 60Ghz solution and although it gave us a way out of some spectral issues they also gave us grey hares and even after several replacements they are still not working 100%. If they don’t drop their prices by at least 50% I think they loose a lot of market share to the new Mikrotik product… At least I am not buying from them anymore…)
There is definitive a need for 5GHz Backup. The weather is getting more problematic these days. We had 2 hard rains the last 10 days which even brought our 18GHz licensed links over it’s limits (>30db attenuation) which have a big margin calculated. But backups have to take over very fast as the rain kicks in fast. For sure this rain would take out 60GHz, too.